Last Man Standing aka Last Chance Qualifier

[TheBoxer]

Question 5)Will we go to an all class tournament?
Answer: No
Reason: There is money being made off each regional tournament. and the state tournament. Either one of these reduces the number of tournaments. Options that involve taking money away from those making the decisions will go no where

I'm always baffled by this. Combining the two 16 man brackets into one 32 man bracket would not decrease revenue.
In fact, if it were going to have ANY impact at all on revenue, it would increase it, since there are more rounds in a 32 man bracket, and more total matches.

A 32 man bracket, placing top 8, has 62 matches. A 16 man bracket, placing top 6, has 29 matches.
29x2=58
58<62

So, explain how a 32 man bracket causes a loss of revenue, relative to two 16 man brackets?
This statement is repeated on here over with no thought to back it up.

Pretty sure I mentioned Regional tournaments being reduced by going all class. Unless you have 8 regions. Then you could in theory have the top 4 wrestlers on the same side of the bracket. "lets just get rid of the pill" ok now you are seeding a 32 person bracket and adding human subjectivity into it.

or
Lets add in a Dual Region A only tournament with the top 8 going to State (or even top 4 to make 8 man brackets in A) So we are adding money being made by 3 tournaments.

Not to mention this idea of 3 tournaments becomes even more likely starting the 22/23 season when we will likely have a 4A class system (depending on the BBall trial)
Gets pretty easy to see a 4A tournament, a 3A tournament and a 1A/2A tournament.

[greencrush]

Question 5)Will we go to an all class tournament?
Answer: No
Reason: There is money being made off each regional tournament. and the state tournament. Either one of these reduces the number of tournaments. Options that involve taking money away from those making the decisions will go no where

I'm always baffled by this. Combining the two 16 man brackets into one 32 man bracket would not decrease revenue.
In fact, if it were going to have ANY impact at all on revenue, it would increase it, since there are more rounds in a 32 man bracket, and more total matches.

A 32 man bracket, placing top 8, has 62 matches. A 16 man bracket, placing top 6, has 29 matches.
29x2=58
58<62

So, explain how a 32 man bracket causes a loss of revenue, relative to two 16 man brackets?
This statement is repeated on here over with no thought to back it up.

Pretty sure I mentioned Regional tournaments being reduced by going all class. Unless you have 8 regions. Then you could in theory have the top 4 wrestlers on the same side of the bracket. "lets just get rid of the pill" ok now you are seeding a 32 person bracket and adding human subjectivity into it.

or
Lets add in a Dual Region A only tournament with the top 8 going to State (or even top 4 to make 8 man brackets in A) So we are adding money being made by 3 tournaments.

Not to mention this idea of 3 tournaments becomes even more likely starting the 22/23 season when we will likely have a 4A class system (depending on the BBall trial)
Gets pretty easy to see a 4A tournament, a 3A tournament and a 1A/2A tournament.

I wouldn't advocate for reducing the number of regions, just combining the state tournament into an all class, and realigning into 8 new regions. No loss in revenue there.

More state tournaments is just a silly idea, in my opinion. The brackets already have byes and wrestlers with losing records with just two classes.

Regardless, nobody with enough influence to facilitate change cares. So, it's all a moot point. We get what we're dealt.

[KDunbar]

PLEASE NOTE THE DATES OF THE FIRST POSTING ON THIS DISCUSSION TOPIC. We talked about this TWO years ago and it has been brought up again as a problem that needs to be addressed TWO years later. However, it was brought up by another person in the past 1-2 days.

Totally irrelevant information, but I'm posting this to laugh at myself. Your capitalized note above does not help since it is located clear at the end of the thread. I pulled up the thread and started reading down through until I came to my own post located above. I immediately thought someone had "hacked" my account and was posting for me. That's when I first noticed I was reading posts from 2 years ago and finally came upon your above referenced "capitalized " added post. Just thought I'd let you know that this method does not work for imbeciles who are using the site.

[Bearhugger]

Good luck this weekend to Braxton Amos as he competes in the "Last Chance Qualifier" for both Greco and Freestyle.

[Bearhugger]

Based on current forum discussions dated February, 2024, please read at your leisure this discussion topic dated 2018.

Enjoy

[BsWrestler72]

In Cross Country and Track and Field a school can be represented by more than 1 runner. Why cant wrestling do the same and have both score points for the team?

[Weir_Coach]

I agree with most of this. I don't think JV wrestlers should be allowed to wrestle at States though. Are there any other states that allow this?

I like the idea of the LCQ, but it would be better if the top 3 from each region automatically qualified for States and the top 4 from the LCQ qualified. That makes 16. It also leaves room for more than one wrestler from a loaded region to qualify and wrestle at the State Tournament. This is an easy solution that doesn't change the size of the state brackets. Region 1 A/AA has 9 state-ranked wrestlers that won't be wrestling at States this year. This doesn't include wild cards. There are as many as 6 top-ten wrestlers in multiple weight classes in Region 1. Those wrestlers need to be at the State Tournament. It makes the State Tournament harder than Region 1, which is obviously how it should be but currently not how it is.

[Weir_Coach]

In Cross Country and Track and Field a school can be represented by more than 1 runner. Why cant wrestling do the same and have both score points for the team?

Because it gives an unfair advantage to schools with a greater population who already have enough of an advantage. 14 weight classes, 14 wrestlers. This is how it has always been in wrestling nationwide.

[Jeremy_Callen]

Just curious bearhugger when was the last time wv had a bye at the state tournament and how many years in a row has it been.i didn't know this was a ongoing problem and not a new one. I do happen to see that the 2016 tournament had 38 teams and than 2017 only had 29. I think regionals is a good place to start looking at numbers to spread teams out. .................... I like how Florida does its classifications. It changes per sport so sports like football the school I'm at is 4a I think they go up to 8a or 9a. Now for wrestling there is less schools so they only have 3 divisions so our school is a 2a. So what they do is split it straight into thirds and that's the divisions. I think wv could easily imply that and both divisions would have enough wrestlers. I still think wv doesn't have the numbers to have more than a one class state tournament.

I have brought up the idea of a one class tournament several times and it keeps getting shot down. There are states out there with much larger populations than West Virginia that have one classification tournaments. For instance, Kentucky's population is just over 2.5 times more than ours in West Virginia and they host a one classification bracketed wrestling tournament. Almost everyone I have spoken to is not in favor of a one classification tournament, especially the smaller schools.

[KSRefBP]

I have brought up the idea of a one class tournament several times and it keeps getting shot down. There are states out there with much larger populations than West Virginia that have one classification tournaments. For instance, Kentucky's population is just over 2.5 times more than ours in West Virginia and they host a one classification bracketed wrestling tournament. Almost everyone I have spoken to is not in favor of a one classification tournament, especially the smaller schools.

I could probably just call you and ask you this question, but it's more fun to have an open discussion here. I thought for sure the WVSSAC would have adopted the new classification system into wrestling and simply combined AAAA/AAA and then AA/A. I believe both divisions in WV are very competitive and have some very solid wrestling. A one class system would be intense from an individual standpoint. And anyone who thinks AAA would dominate would be misinformed. But, you have to admit that one division having around 30 schools and the other side having over double that is a little lopsided. So would it not make sense to adopt the 4 class system and balance things out with AAAA/AAA for one division and AA/A for the other division?

[mscoach90]

I have the same thought as the last post. Same system for all athletics.

[Armyman]

In Michigan a team can have more than one wrestler in a weight class. Only one counts towards a team score. But I have seen two wrestlers from the same team wrestle in the State Tournament. In Michigan they have Districts, Regional and State and take the top 4 from each to the next level. I can even recall two brothers in the same weight (103lb) and same team placing in the state tournament (2019). Bottom line is the best wrestlers have an opportunity, whether they are varsity/JV.

https://www.mhsaa.com/sites/default/fil ... 4final.pdf

[Nedswamn]

This post is like a beacon of hope in a turbulent world.

[KDunbar]

I have brought up the idea of a one class tournament several times and it keeps getting shot down. There are states out there with much larger populations than West Virginia that have one classification tournaments. For instance, Kentucky's population is just over 2.5 times more than ours in West Virginia and they host a one classification bracketed wrestling tournament. Almost everyone I have spoken to is not in favor of a one classification tournament, especially the smaller schools.

I could probably just call you and ask you this question, but it's more fun to have an open discussion here. I thought for sure the WVSSAC would have adopted the new classification system into wrestling and simply combined AAAA/AAA and then AA/A. I believe both divisions in WV are very competitive and have some very solid wrestling. A one class system would be intense from an individual standpoint. And anyone who thinks AAA would dominate would be misinformed. But, you have to admit that one division having around 30 schools and the other side having over double that is a little lopsided. So would it not make sense to adopt the 4 class system and balance things out with AAAA/AAA for one division and AA/A for the other division?

I'm pretty sure you've followed wrestling in WV long enough to know better than to quote the numbers you did and make the point you are trying to make. It is totally erroneous to state teams listed for AAA as 32 and AA/A as 64 and try to use that in any kind of argument for wrestling in WV. In AAA regionals there were 352 wrestlers equalling about 25 teams. In AA/A there were 536 wrestlers equalling about 38 teams. This is no where close to double. And it depends on what you mean by dominate but it would probably be unfair to put "most" AA schools in a bracket with AAA. Just look at tournaments like Gerry Raymond and WSAZ and you can see what AA/A teams (not individual wrestlers) do in those kind of tournaments. So, no it does not make sense to balance things out on "number" of teams, as that number in misleading and inaccurate.

[KSRefBP]

I'm pretty sure you've followed wrestling in WV long enough to know better than to quote the numbers you did and make the point you are trying to make. It is totally erroneous to state teams listed for AAA as 32 and AA/A as 64 and try to use that in any kind of argument for wrestling in WV. In AAA regionals there were 352 wrestlers equalling about 25 teams. In AA/A there were 536 wrestlers equalling about 38 teams. This is no where close to double. And it depends on what you mean by dominate but it would probably be unfair to put "most" AA schools in a bracket with AAA. Just look at tournaments like Gerry Raymond and WSAZ and you can see what AA/A teams (not individual wrestlers) do in those kind of tournaments. So, no it does not make sense to balance things out on "number" of teams, as that number in misleading and inaccurate.

Perhaps I did a poor job of what I was trying to get across. But you do bring up a side that I had never considered and that's simply individual participation. I did a quick count and if you went to AAAA/AAA and AA/A, you actually end up with around 55 AAAA/AAA teams and 39 AA/A teams. I stepped away from officiating this year, so I'm not up to speed on the regional numbers you provided. But I'd be curious (and am possibly requesting you to do the research) as to what the regional participation numbers would have been had we been AAAA/AAA and AA/A this season.

As for my dominate comment, it was more geared towards saying AA/A has had some tough state champs over the years who could have won AAA during those years. That's taking nothing away from the AAA side of things. Just implying that wrestling is pretty unique in that any wrestler from any division could come through and win a one class bracket.

While I'm a fan of the one class bracket, I'm also a fan of increasing participation. I think a one class bracket hurts participation at all levels. But boy, it'd be fun to watch.