Big 12 Results and NCAA Qualifiers

[mscoach57]

WVU scored 34.5 points earning a 13th place finish outdistancing newcomer Cal Baptist (who finished in 14th place with 1 team point).
Congratulations to the 3 Mountaineers who earned automatic bids to the NCAA
141 Jordan Titus placed 7th
165 Peyton Hall placed 6th
285 Michael Wolfgram placed 8th

Hopefully the Wildcards will be kind

[Jon Perkins]

It was certainly not their best performance of the year to say the least. I thought Killian might wrestle the minimum number of matches to qualify before he medically forfeited but with him medically forfeiting out of the tournament, that says a lot about his health. Let's hope he can get an At-large bid and be as healthy as possible for the NCAA's and have one last run.

I honestly thought they had a realistic chance of qualifying 4 for the NCAA's, so with Killian forfeiting out and qualifying the other three they did what I thought they would do. However, Hillegas, Hornfeck, Carman, and Wolfgram all fell flat and underperformed in my opinion. Cooley wrestled well at times, I feel like he should have, or at least could have, won his match against the UVU guy which would have allowed him to qualify. Let's hope they can pick up a couple at-large bids and get a couple more guys into the tournament.

One last thought from the weekend, I want to show my appreciation for Scott Joll. This guy wrestled out of his shoes this weekend. He was one spot away from qualifying, but man did he put up a fight. I don't know if he will come back next year or not, but I have enjoyed watching him wrestle the last four years. When he hit the mat, you knew he was going to fight, scratch, and claw for every point he could get. He has a very unorthodox style and a never say die attitude which is just a lot of fun to watch. If anyone on the team deserves an at-large bid it is this guy.

[mscoach57]

Joll is a junior. I’m not privy as to what his NLI says regarding what WVU will pay but he still has a red shirt year and a competition year according to the NCAA.

[Jon Perkins]

Scot Joll is a senior. He has never used his red-shirt and he has one year of eligibility left to compete because of the Covid year. He should be graduating this year and could have professional aspirations putting his degree to work. Just like Anthony Carman, he is listed as a red-shirt junior in terms of competing eligibility but he also has been in college for four years, Senior status, and should be graduating this year.

[Bearhugger]

It was certainly not their best performance of the year to say the least. I thought Killian might wrestle the minimum number of matches to qualify before he medically forfeited but with him medically forfeiting out of the tournament, that says a lot about his health. Let's hope he can get an At-large bid and be as healthy as possible for the NCAA's and have one last run.

I honestly thought they had a realistic chance of qualifying 4 for the NCAA's, so with Killian forfeiting out and qualifying the other three they did what I thought they would do. However, Hillegas, Hornfeck, Carman, and Wolfgram all fell flat and underperformed in my opinion. Cooley wrestled well at times, I feel like he should have, or at least could have, won his match against the UVU guy which would have allowed him to qualify. Let's hope they can pick up a couple at-large bids and get a couple more guys into the tournament.

One last thought from the weekend, I want to show my appreciation for Scott Joll. This guy wrestled out of his shoes this weekend. He was one spot away from qualifying, but man did he put up a fight. I don't know if he will come back next year or not, but I have enjoyed watching him wrestle the last four years. When he hit the mat, you knew he was going to fight, scratch, and claw for every point he could get. He has a very unorthodox style and a never say die attitude which is just a lot of fun to watch. If anyone on the team deserves an at-large bid it is this guy.

Why do you think those four fell flat and underperformed? That is 40% of the team.

[mscoach4]

I have a rules question that might be better placed somewhere else on the forum but here people might see it who saw the match in question.
I did not see the first 2 periods of the Titus match that he lost in the consolations. When I tuned into it it was at the start of the third period. He was started down with him behind 3-1. The SDSU wrestler stalled the whole 3rd period and Titus was awarded 2 stall points to tie the match. The SDSU kid was awarded the riding point to win the match 4-3. Now my questions.
.
1. Did the SDSU wrestler already have riding time secured before the start of the 3rd period? If so it will make me feel better about the final result.
2. What if he didn't and he secured the win by gaining the riding time while getting 3 stall calls against him? It seems to me that the riding time point should be negated,
.
I realize that a similar situation is probably pretty rare but is it addressed anywhere in the rule book? Perhaps it is as I am not totally familiar with college riding time rules

[Doyablameme?]

It was certainly not their best performance of the year to say the least. I thought Killian might wrestle the minimum number of matches to qualify before he medically forfeited but with him medically forfeiting out of the tournament, that says a lot about his health. Let's hope he can get an At-large bid and be as healthy as possible for the NCAA's and have one last run.

I honestly thought they had a realistic chance of qualifying 4 for the NCAA's, so with Killian forfeiting out and qualifying the other three they did what I thought they would do. However, Hillegas, Hornfeck, Carman, and Wolfgram all fell flat and underperformed in my opinion. Cooley wrestled well at times, I feel like he should have, or at least could have, won his match against the UVU guy which would have allowed him to qualify. Let's hope they can pick up a couple at-large bids and get a couple more guys into the tournament.

One last thought from the weekend, I want to show my appreciation for Scott Joll. This guy wrestled out of his shoes this weekend. He was one spot away from qualifying, but man did he put up a fight. I don't know if he will come back next year or not, but I have enjoyed watching him wrestle the last four years. When he hit the mat, you knew he was going to fight, scratch, and claw for every point he could get. He has a very unorthodox style and a never say die attitude which is just a lot of fun to watch. If anyone on the team deserves an at-large bid it is this guy.

Why do you think those four fell flat and underperformed? That is 40% of the team.

Any way you analyze or slice it … WVU is just not very good .. in fact kinda bad.

[Bearhugger]

WVU scored 34.5 points earning a 13th place finish outdistancing newcomer Cal Baptist (who finished in 14th place with 1 team point).
Congratulations to the 3 Mountaineers who earned automatic bids to the NCAA
141 Jordan Titus placed 7th
165 Peyton Hall placed 6th
285 Michael Wolfgram placed 8th

Hopefully the Wildcards will be kind

This will provide a new metric for the 2024 season. Does Cal Baptist surpass WVU in the Big 12? Can WVU maintain their 33.5 point advantage or does Cal Baptist pull within a few points?

[armyscot0873]

It was definitely a disappointing result, but looking at team score really means nothing. Not sure about the true health of Hall and Cardinale but when your best wrestler doesnt even wrestle a match and then your 2nd best wrestler on the team wrestles 2 matches (winning 1 by pin, losing 2nd by 3-1 to Big 12 champion) it is definitely going to affect your team score. Again medical forfeits are just a part of college wrestling since they do not count against your record. I just hope that Hall and Cardinale are good to go for the NCAAs.

[armyscot0873]

I guess Cardinale medical forfeiting worked out. Him plus Carman and Conley are going dancing. WVU gets most qualified since 2012.

[JohnK73]

Anyone know why Hall didn’t wrestle on day 2? I didn’t see any injuries occur in his semi’s match, and have to think if healthy he would have rather placed 3rd than 6th.

Disappointed Joll didn’t get a bid, i would bace rather seen he get the bid over Carman.

Cooley placed 7th and got a bid, but could tell he’s still not healthy. He was moving much faster and had a higher pace earlier in the year. Not sure how much he’ll heal up by next week, but definitely was a decent pickup for Flynn.

60% of the starters going to the Natty’s is pretty impressive.

[Doyablameme?]

Anyone know why Hall didn’t wrestle on day 2? I didn’t see any injuries occur in his semi’s match, and have to think if healthy he would have rather placed 3rd than 6th.

Disappointed Joll didn’t get a bid, i would bace rather seen he get the bid over Carman.

Cooley placed 7th and got a bid, but could tell he’s still not healthy. He was moving much faster and had a higher pace earlier in the year. Not sure how much he’ll heal up by next week, but definitely was a decent pickup for Flynn.

60% of the starters going to the Natty’s is pretty impressive.

“impressive “… surely u jest?

[Jon Perkins]

Anyone know why Hall didn’t wrestle on day 2? I didn’t see any injuries occur in his semi’s match, and have to think if healthy he would have rather placed 3rd than 6th.

Disappointed Joll didn’t get a bid, i would bace rather seen he get the bid over Carman.

Cooley placed 7th and got a bid, but could tell he’s still not healthy. He was moving much faster and had a higher pace earlier in the year. Not sure how much he’ll heal up by next week, but definitely was a decent pickup for Flynn.

60% of the starters going to the Natty’s is pretty impressive.

“impressive “… surely u jest?

I love this specific response. There is so much being said and it has something that most everyone on here would like. JohnK is being positive and optimistic, which most people like, and Doya is being a little negative and sarcastic, which a few others on here like as well. And for those who like numbers it offers up whole numbers and even fractions, in the form of percentages.

Even though WVU didn't have a great showing at the BIG 12 tournament, let's put the total number of qualifiers in perspective. They automatically qualified 3, which isn't great, but they picked up 3 at-large bids. The guys getting those bids would not have gotten those bids if their body of work throughout the year wasn't significant enough to earn it. Last year there was only one guy on the team that had enough wins to earn an at-large bid. Last year the entire team only had 4 qualifiers and this year they have a total of 6. This doesn't seem that significant because it is only a difference of two, but it is a 20% increase. If you had a 20% increase in your 401K over a years' time you would be over the moon and no one would be able to wipe the smile off your face, but when WVU increases their national qualifiers by 20% people are like, "Well they could have done better."

Doya was right in an earlier response, this team is not that great. They have showed signs of toughness and grit and have been pretty good at times this year, but they have also showed a lot of inconsistency too. It is a slow build but they seem to keep improving bit by bit year after year. Everyone should stay positive, show support, and just enjoy the fact that they get to watch wrestling. NCAA's are a week away and the worst match I have ever seen at the NCAA tournament was GREAT.

[Doyablameme?]

Anyone know why Hall didn’t wrestle on day 2? I didn’t see any injuries occur in his semi’s match, and have to think if healthy he would have rather placed 3rd than 6th.

Disappointed Joll didn’t get a bid, i would bace rather seen he get the bid over Carman.

Cooley placed 7th and got a bid, but could tell he’s still not healthy. He was moving much faster and had a higher pace earlier in the year. Not sure how much he’ll heal up by next week, but definitely was a decent pickup for Flynn.

60% of the starters going to the Natty’s is pretty impressive.

“impressive “… surely u jest?

I love this specific response. There is so much being said and it has something that most everyone on here would like. JohnK is being positive and optimistic, which most people like, and Doya is being a little negative and sarcastic, which a few others on here like as well. And for those who like numbers it offers up whole numbers and even fractions, in the form of percentages.

Even though WVU didn't have a great showing at the BIG 12 tournament, let's put the total number of qualifiers in perspective. They automatically qualified 3, which isn't great, but they picked up 3 at-large bids. The guys getting those bids would not have gotten those bids if their body of work throughout the year wasn't significant enough to earn it. Last year there was only one guy on the team that had enough wins to earn an at-large bid. Last year the entire team only had 4 qualifiers and this year they have a total of 6. This doesn't seem that significant because it is only a difference of two, but it is a 20% increase. If you had a 20% increase in your 401K over a years' time you would be over the moon and no one would be able to wipe the smile off your face, but when WVU increases their national qualifiers by 20% people are like, "Well they could have done better."

Doya was right in an earlier response, this team is not that great. They have showed signs of toughness and grit and have been pretty good at times this year, but they have also showed a lot of inconsistency too. It is a slow build but they seem to keep improving bit by bit year after year. Everyone should stay positive, show support, and just enjoy the fact that they get to watch wrestling. NCAA's are a week away and the worst match I have ever seen at the NCAA tournament was GREAT.

Stop it. WVU is not gonna improve until the University invests the money.. a paradigm shift of sorts.
“ slow build “ is BS

[aacoach61]

Finishing in 13th place of 14 teams in the Big 12 tournament is alarming, to say it politely.

I hope our qualifiers bounce back in the NCAA tournament.

[armyscot0873]

Finishing in 13th place of 14 teams in the Big 12 tournament is alarming, to say it politely.

I hope our qualifiers bounce back in the NCAA tournament.

Again our 2 best wrestlers only wrestled 2 matches. Hall wrestled 2 matches, winning 1 and then losing to the BIG12 Champ and #1 NCAA seed. Cardinale wrestled no matches. That is a lot of team points but the NCAAs have a much greater importance. If not wrestling in unnecessary matches to get more rest for the NCAAs is needed then that is the smart move. What is there really to brag about getting 7th in the Big 12 versus 12th? Seemed to me like the game plan coming into the Big 12 was for Hall and Cardinale to do exactly what they did. Now if Hall had beaten Carr I'm sure he would have wrestled the next match.

[Geoswaff]

Sadly the Big 12 Tournament is a prime example of the dilution of the significance of any tournament other than the NCAA's. Not wrestling all of your guys or MFF your guys and relying on at large bids is becoming a normal strategy. I predict at some point, unless things change, individual tournaments will only be attended by red shirts and backups to get them matches. I toss out the Big 12 team result as an outlier.
This years team is definitely an improvement over previous years team but is still 2nd tier in the Big 12. I do believe the program is on the rise and that investment wise WVU is a 1st tier/top program in terms of its facilities. I have heard from not only Coach Flynn but also others that WVU Wrestling pavilion is a top 5 facility in the nation. Its only 1 of 2 that I have seen so I cannot verify that personally.

[aacoach61]

Final Team Scores
1 Missouri 148.0

2 OK State 134.0

3 Iowa St. 131.0

4 Oklahoma 97.5

5 N. Dakota State 89.0

6 S. Dakota State 86.5

7 N. Iowa 73.0

8 Air Force 64.5

9 N. Colorado 50.0

10 Wyoming 41.0

11 Utah Valley 37.5

12 W. Virginia 34.5

13 Cal Baptist 1.0