Tonight’s quad meet

[JohnK73]

I wasn’t able to be there, and only able to follow on the team’s twitter account, but unfortunately, they only posted the final scores. The scores looked good, but how did the wrestling look? For anyone that was there, what does the “eye test” tell you?

[Doyablameme?]

I wasn’t able to be there, and only able to follow on the team’s twitter account, but unfortunately, they only posted the final scores. The scores looked good, but how did the wrestling look? For anyone that was there, what does the “eye test” tell you?

What “ quad meet” are you referring ?

[Geoswaff]

Killian did not wrestle.
Rhoades debuted and he was just kinda ok
Titus looked decent in neutral and on top but struggled on bottom, got tech’d by Alirez.
Hillegas looks amazing. Great pickup
Hrnfeck wrestled well. Dowling also wrestled but the other kid, Kemerer, got knocked out by a headbutt
Hall was awesome
Conley looked amazing and really looks like he should start at 74
Anthony Carmen and Wolfgram both lost to D2 wrestlers from Glenville. They did not wrestle well. They both came through against N. Colorado though.
Cooley was also dominant. Another great pickup.

[Bearhugger]

I was in attendance and here are my take aways:

1. WVU won all three duals. Last season, WVU won 9 out of 10 weight classes vs D2 Glenville State. Last night, WVU only won 7 out of 10 weight classes. Two of their nationally ranked wrestlers got defeated by Glenville. Both were on the heavier weight end of the line up. How do we interpret this? Glenville is getting that much better??

2. WVU won their opening Big 12 dual against Northern Colorado. They have now matched their Big 12 dual win record of last season. They should be able to win some more duals in the Big 12 this season.

3. Yes, Hillegas, Conley and Cooley looked very tough. Again, we have first season wrestlers coming in and doing well. The recent trend has been that first season wrestlers shine brighter than the wrestlers that have been on the squad for a few years. Hall being the big exception. However, Hall was incredible when he first walked in and he has maintained/improved. PH would improve if he was back home working out with Oak Glen before hitting the college mats each week.

4. WVU's "big man" coach seems to be the odd man out on the coaching staff. He sits away from the rest of the staff. If you didn't know who he was, you would have thought he was just another reserve wrestler sitting down with the team. The two nationally ranked wrestlers who lost to D2 wrestlers were 184 and 285. Probably just a coincidence.

5. Four time WV state champion and Dutton Award winner Gavin Quiocho has gone from a high school 160 pounder that obviously was overlooked by WVU, to a lean mean WVU butt kicking machine at 133. Whereas GQ beat up on WVU's 133, it looks like WVU could benefit from a local like GQ. To expand, Coach Cottrell (probably half the age of Flynn), brought in GQ and has him at 133. BIG development after one year of college for GQ.

6. The most impressive wrestler of the evening was D2 Glenville State's 285. He showed WVU's #17 Nationally Ranked 285 no respect. This was not a fluke. I believe the Glenville Grappler got two takedowns and they were NOT capitalizing on WVU's mistakes. He simply out wrestled Wolfgram. Wolfgram also appeared to be the heavier of the two. This D2 wrestler is now the uncrowned #17 in the nation.

WVU travels to Missouri on December 2nd for another Big 12 challenge.

[Jon Perkins]

Was there supposed to be a compliment in there somewhere? If there was you have to dig deep to find one. You have the right to be critical, in fact I welcome criticism, but in order to do that you also have to give credit where credit is due. For example:

1. Instead of saying WVU only won 7 of 10 matches against GSC, you should be saying something to the effect of: GSC is a young and emerging D2 program and even though they lost the dual they managed to come away with three wins. with two of the three coming against guys ranked nationally in the Top 20. Congratulations are in order for Gavin Quicho, Cole Houser, and Jared Campbell their hard work and dedication is paying off and it shows on the wrestling mat. You didn't even name the guys from GSC that beat the WVU wrestlers, you were too interested in running one team down to boost another one up.

2. After wrestling a 160 pounds in high school, Gavin Quiocho has seemed to have a renewed dedication to the sport. With his hard work and dedication he has dropped almost 30 pounds and appears to a national threat in the 133 pound weight class. Dylan Cottrell has nothing to do with Gavin's tenacity and work ethic. As the head coach he is there for guidance and it up to the wrestlers to make it happen. You can't make an apple pie with a bag of oranges, and you cannot turn a 160 pound high school wrestler into a 133 pound national title contender without the effort of the participant. I wish Gavin the best of luck this year, he is a fine young man and a hard worker and he goes to a fine educational institution, I am also a fellow GSC Pioneer.

3. You have been saying on here for two years now that WVU needs to show you something before you will admit they are getting better. Well Mr. Man you just admitted that this team is getting better. How can a team keep bringing new guys that are better than the guys that they currently have on the team and not begin to get better. To say that the team has brought in Hillegas, Conley, and Cooley all three being better than the previous starters but they are not getting better is completely counter-intuitive. And NOOO....Peyton Hall would not get better in the Oak Glen wrestling room. Oak Glen is a high school for God's sake and Peyton Hall is a D1 All-American. This is just a dumb comment.

So, if you are going to be critical you first need to recognize what it is you are being critical of. Is this WVU the best? No, and not by a long a shot but they are slowly getting better. Can Tim Flynn make WVU a NCAA trophy contending team? No one knows that, but he did it at Edinboro with a lot less resources than he has now, and it didn't happen overnight. Should two guys that are D1 wrestlers that are ranked in the Top 20 lose to a couple of D2 wrestlers? Probably not, but D2 wrestling is still very competitive and there are a lot of good wrestlers that wrestle D2 and crazy things happen.

[mscoach57]

Was there supposed to be a compliment in there somewhere? If there was you have to dig deep to find one. You have the right to be critical, in fact I welcome criticism, but in order to do that you also have to give credit where credit is due. My recollection is that you did not like criticism when it was due in past years but maybe you've changed your ways

For example:

1. Instead of saying WVU only won 7 of 10 matches against GSC, you should be saying something to the effect of: GSC is a young and emerging D2 program and even though they lost the dual they managed to come away with three wins. with two of the three coming against guys ranked nationally in the Top 20. Congratulations are in order for Gavin Quicho, Cole Houser, and Jared Campbell their hard work and dedication is paying off and it shows on the wrestling mat. You didn't even name the guys from GSC that beat the WVU wrestlers, you were too interested in running one team down to boost another one up.

2. After wrestling a 160 pounds in high school, Gavin Quiocho has seemed to have a renewed dedication to the sport. This seems to imply that Gavin was not dedicated to the sport as a 4x high school state champ. What were your accomplishments? My guess is that he would have embarrassed you on the mat then and now. With his hard work and dedication he has dropped almost 30 pounds and appears to a national threat in the 133 pound weight class. Dylan Cottrell has nothing to do with Gavin's tenacity and work ethic. Odd that you deny credit where credit is due to Cottrell but heap on the praise to WVU's staff when it comes to Hall. As the head coach he is there for guidance and it up to the wrestlers to make it happen. You can't make an apple pie with a bag of oranges, and you cannot turn a 160 pound high school wrestler into a 133 pound national title contender without the effort of the participant. I wish Gavin the best of luck this year, he is a fine young man and a hard worker and he goes to a fine educational institution, I am also a fellow GSC Pioneer.

3. You have been saying on here for two years now that WVU needs to show you something before you will admit they are getting better. Well Mr. Man you just admitted that this team is getting better. How can a team keep bringing new guys that are better than the guys that they currently have on the team and not begin to get better. To say that the team has brought in Hillegas, Conley, and Cooley all three being better than the previous starters but they are not getting better is completely counter-intuitive. A very elementary reading of Bearhugger's comment is that WVU does a good job of bringing in new/better wrestlers but that those new/better wrestlers seem to get worse over time. In fact, that is the crux of his critique of Coach Flynn, good wrestlers regress or leave. I don't know if he is right or not but the average person could read and understand his point. Sorry you missed it. And NOOO....Peyton Hall would not get better in the Oak Glen wrestling room. Oak Glen is a high school for God's sake and Peyton Hall is a D1 All-American. This is just a dumb comment. See previous note about Cottrell not having anything to do with Gavin's success but Flynn being Hall's savior. While praising WVU's staff, your position is belittling to Coach Cottrell and Hall. Who, like Gavin, are also 4x WV High School Champs

So, if you are going to be critical you first need to recognize what it is you are being critical of. Fact checking is indeed important before one tries to make a point. Reminds me a guy who told all of us that the simple solution was a Mylan sponsorship. Is this WVU the best? No, and not by a long a shot but they are slowly getting better. Can Tim Flynn make WVU a NCAA trophy contending team? No one knows that, but he did it at Edinboro with a lot less resources than he has now, and it didn't happen overnight. Should two guys that are D1 wrestlers that are ranked in the Top 20 lose to a couple of D2 wrestlers? Probably not, but D2 wrestling is still very competitive and there are a lot of good wrestlers that wrestle D2 and crazy things happen.

I personally give the WVU Coaches a lot of credit for Hall's progress. I also give Hall a lot of credit for his own progress. Unlike the previous poster, I believe that Dylan Cottrell is doing a fantastic job at Glenville State and his wrestlers have obviously bought in and are doing very well. I was hoping to see DeLong wrestle 174 to see how he matched up with his former team. He wrestled the other matches, anyone know why he didn't wrestle against WVU? One of the risks of wrestling an instate d2 program is that the d2 guys come out extra motivated and the d1 guys come out less motivated. Nothing to lose for the d2 guys and nothing to gain for the d1 guys. That being said I am appreciative of WVU for scheduling these matches and giving us fans an opportunity to see West Virginia natives on the mat. There appeared to be more of a crowd at this match than most of the WVU matches I have attended in the past.
I am excited about this WVU Team. Last year's dual results were embarrassing. I am cautiously optimistic we'll do better this year. I am excited to see the Missouri dual Hall vs O'Toole, Elam vs Wolfgram, Elam vs Cooley. I hope we have Killian back soon. I understand we probably have him on a pitch count, wrestling for this many years is hard on the body and we need him in Tulsa for Big 12's and NCAA's. Last but certainly not least the most important addition to Flynn's staff has been Kyle Bratke. Bratke's presence at WVU makes it much easier to keep up with the results and watch events in person/online.

[Jon Perkins]

Look who's back, my ole buddy mscoach57. I can see your reading skills have not improved in the off season. You are still assuming things that fit your narrative and not what is actually being said. You have never heard me say that I do not like criticism. You have heard me say that I do not like people who only criticize and offer no real solutions to the problems. Again, that last part doesn't fit your narrative, so you conveniently leave it off.

Nowhere in my post did I take any credit away from Dylan Cottrell and the job he is doing at GSC, like you are saying. I think he is doing a fine job and the team is doing quite well. And I did not give any praise to Tim Flynn for Peyton Hall's success. I don't know where you read that, but it wasn't in my post. Neither of those young men would have the success they have had without their own dedication and hard work. The coaches are there to give guidance and instruction but all of that is for nothing if you have an undisciplined pupil.

And if you want to know what my credentials were in high school, I will tell you. When I turned 16 my parents told me that they were not going to teach me to live on welfare, whether it was public or private. If I wanted anything better than what they could provide, which wasn't much, then I had to get a job and earn it myself. I come from a large family and my dad was the one that worked while my mom raised their kids, so extra things did not come around often. So playing sports in high school was not much of option for me because I did not have a set of parents that provided private welfare, they only provided what parents are obligated to provide, things like food, shelter, and limited clothing and instilled in me a good work ethic. So while everyone else was driving around in a car provided by mom and dad, I was out earing my own and saving money to go to college. Those are my credentials...not bad for a 16 year kid, huh?

[Bearhugger]

Was there supposed to be a compliment in there somewhere? If there was you have to dig deep to find one. You have the right to be critical, in fact I welcome criticism, but in order to do that you also have to give credit where credit is due. For example:

1. Instead of saying WVU only won 7 of 10 matches against GSC, you should be saying something to the effect of: GSC is a young and emerging D2 program and even though they lost the dual they managed to come away with three wins. with two of the three coming against guys ranked nationally in the Top 20. Congratulations are in order for Gavin Quicho, Cole Houser, and Jared Campbell their hard work and dedication is paying off and it shows on the wrestling mat. You didn't even name the guys from GSC that beat the WVU wrestlers, you were too interested in running one team down to boost another one up.

2. After wrestling a 160 pounds in high school, Gavin Quiocho has seemed to have a renewed dedication to the sport. With his hard work and dedication he has dropped almost 30 pounds and appears to a national threat in the 133 pound weight class. Dylan Cottrell has nothing to do with Gavin's tenacity and work ethic. As the head coach he is there for guidance and it up to the wrestlers to make it happen. You can't make an apple pie with a bag of oranges, and you cannot turn a 160 pound high school wrestler into a 133 pound national title contender without the effort of the participant. I wish Gavin the best of luck this year, he is a fine young man and a hard worker and he goes to a fine educational institution, I am also a fellow GSC Pioneer.

3. You have been saying on here for two years now that WVU needs to show you something before you will admit they are getting better. Well Mr. Man you just admitted that this team is getting better. How can a team keep bringing new guys that are better than the guys that they currently have on the team and not begin to get better. To say that the team has brought in Hillegas, Conley, and Cooley all three being better than the previous starters but they are not getting better is completely counter-intuitive. And NOOO....Peyton Hall would not get better in the Oak Glen wrestling room. Oak Glen is a high school for God's sake and Peyton Hall is a D1 All-American. This is just a dumb comment.

So, if you are going to be critical you first need to recognize what it is you are being critical of. Is this WVU the best? No, and not by a long a shot but they are slowly getting better. Can Tim Flynn make WVU a NCAA trophy contending team? No one knows that, but he did it at Edinboro with a lot less resources than he has now, and it didn't happen overnight. Should two guys that are D1 wrestlers that are ranked in the Top 20 lose to a couple of D2 wrestlers? Probably not, but D2 wrestling is still very competitive and there are a lot of good wrestlers that wrestle D2 and crazy things happen.

John, first of all, I am glad you post on the forum. Second, I have been busy with Thanksgiving preparations. I work to make the dinner and make the dinner better each year. I do not take the easy way out and recruit ready made meals every holiday.

However, I had a new perspective today on college coaches, their success, etc. A wrestler has 4 to 5 years to complete his college eligibility.

Forget about Covid extra years, grey shirts, Olympic redshirts, etc. Four to five years to earn a spot, get better, compete, win something. This means the coach brings in the said wrestler and has 4 to 5 years to do something with him. Improve the program with him. Win something with him.

The wrestler has 4 to 5 years and then he is done. Just how many years should a coach get?

My full response is forthcoming.

[mscoach4]

As long as the trajectory of the program is trending upward the coach stays,, it is too early to say whether this season will continue an upward trend

[Jon Perkins]

As long as the trajectory of the program is trending upward the coach stays,, it is too early to say whether this season will continue an upward trend

I completely agree with that statement. In my opinion the team has been trending upward since Flynn arrived. It certainly has not been at rocket speed, but slowly and steadily getting better.

[KDunbar]

Look who's back, my ole buddy mscoach57. I can see your reading skills have not improved in the off season. You are still assuming things that fit your narrative and not what is actually being said. You have never heard me say that I do not like criticism. You have heard me say that I do not like people who only criticize and offer no real solutions to the problems. Again, that last part doesn't fit your narrative, so you conveniently leave it off.

I believe Bearhugger is repeatedly proposing a solution, but not one you agree with. That is, get a new coach.
.
Nowhere in my post did I take any credit away from Dylan Cottrell and the job he is doing at GSC, like you are saying. I think he is doing a fine job and the team is doing quite well. And I did not give any praise to Tim Flynn for Peyton Hall's success. I don't know where you read that, but it wasn't in my post. Neither of those young men would have the success they have had without their own dedication and hard work. The coaches are there to give guidance and instruction but all of that is for nothing if you have an undisciplined pupil.

And if you want to know what my credentials were in high school, I will tell you. When I turned 16 my parents told me that they were not going to teach me to live on welfare, whether it was public or private. If I wanted anything better than what they could provide, which wasn't much, then I had to get a job and earn it myself. I come from a large family and my dad was the one that worked while my mom raised their kids, so extra things did not come around often. So playing sports in high school was not much of option for me because I did not have a set of parents that provided private welfare, they only provided what parents are obligated to provide, things like food, shelter, and limited clothing and instilled in me a good work ethic. So while everyone else was driving around in a car provided by mom and dad, I was out earing my own and saving money to go to college. Those are my credentials...not bad for a 16 year kid, huh?

Maybe this highlighted statement tells more about you than anything else you will ever post. I don't believe it is reading anything into this, but I didn't realize that my parents or even myself were providing welfare to our children by being dedicated to our family and working hard to provide. My children fit your scenario but somehow had the work ethic to become a doctor, a lawyer, a nurse, and make plans for dental school. I commend your achievement and you may have been exposed to some spoiled children in your life, but I believe you over generalize. I'm guessing your parents gave their children all they could provide and did not hold back and make them suffer just to instill a good work ethic. It is instilled in other ways and setting a good example, like a coach, is probably the best.

[Doyablameme?]

How does one obtain this “private welfare” ? I wish to get me some. Thanks