wvmat.com

Is there a list of teams that will Compete at this years Winner's Choice? Seems to always bring in some good talent from within and even outside the state...

These are the teams I found on WVMat.com and WVSSAC. Cabell Midland, Greenbrier East, Hedgesville, P.H.S., Spring Mills, Spring Valley, University, Buckhannon, Morgantown, Preston, Riverside, Washington, Bridgeport, Fairmont Senior, Keyser, East Fairmont, North Marion, Oak Hill, Petersburg, Roane, Sissonville, Moorefield, Ritchie County and Williamstown.

Nitro will also be there

Please refer to http://www.thewrestlingtourney.com report section for a full list of teams participating in the 2019 Winners Choice.

Thanks for the update...

Didn't think Waynesburg, Pa was coming this year that's great that they are. Should be a really good tournament.. Looking forward to it...

Looks like it'll be a good one. I see North Allegheny is coming for the first time (I assume). I know that school has a helluva football program but not sure how good they are in wrestling.

The word on the street is Moorefield is not attending. They were informed Friday that there was not room for them.

Let me begin by stating that I have never ran a tournament before. However, I do not understand how it takes many months to inform a team there is not room for them. In addition, with all of the forfeits that many teams possess, I would think that another team with approximately 10 wrestlers could be fit in.

Bearhugger,
Obviously you have never run a tournament before, you can't "just fit a team in" when you are in a 32 team format. Additionally, comment on something you have knowledge of..... Moorefield was advised of a full field when they requested entry several months ago. Check around before you make you uneducated and unfounded comments.

MarxaTKE wrote:Bearhugger,
Obviously you have never run a tournament before, you can't "just fit a team in" when you are in a 32 team format. Additionally, comment on something you have knowledge of..... Moorefield was advised of a full field when they requested entry several months ago. Check around before you make you uneducated and unfounded comments.

As I previously stated, I have never run a tournament before. However, let me share some information that might help you.

Given information:

1. The Winner's Choice is a two day, 32 team bracket tournament.
2. The rules permit wrestlers to compete in five matches per day.
3. The 2019 team admission fee is $250 dollars
4. A weekend pass for adults is $20 and a per session pass is $8.
5. I had a BBQ there last season and a Mountain Dew and it cost me maybe $5.
6. 14 weight classes

In 2017, the number of byes for each corresponding weight class at the Winner's Choice was as follows:
106 8
113 11
120 13
126 8
132 9
138 10
145 11
152 9
160 8
170 8
182 7
195 10
220 11
285 13

Also, in 2017, Parkersburg South jumped in at the last minute because they missed the Powerade Tournament in late December. In approximately 2 weeks, they jumped in to the Winner's Choice.

In 2018, the number of byes for each corresponding weight class was as follows:

106 11
113 8
120 12
126 6
132 7
138 8
145 8
152 9
160 11
170 6
182 6
195 10
220 10
285 11

In 2017, the lowest number of byes for a given weight class was 7. This means you had capacity for at least 7 more teams. With an entry fee of $250 per team, $250 x 7 = $1,750 left on the table. The mats were set up, the refs were in place, the food was cooked, the support staff was in place.

Assuming each wrestler has only one person come watch them, that is potentially 7 teams x 14 wrestlers = 98 wrestlers = 98 fans. 98 fans x $20 weekend pass = $1,960 more left on the table lost at the gate. Lets say half of the fans show up. 98/2 = 49 fans X$20 = $980 lost.

Concessions: Only 49 fans X $5 spent = $245 lost at the concession stand.

In 2018, the lowest number of byes for a given weight class was 6. This means you had capacity for 6 more teams, With an entry fee of $250 per team, $250 x 6 = $1,500 left on the table. Etc, etc, etc.

Additional information:
1. If teams miraculously show up with full squads, then why not pigtail in the extras?
2. Worried about the extra time for pigtail rounds? We have more quick pins now than ever before.
3. When coaches talk, I do indeed listen. They all seem to care about the number of matches they get per weigh in. Byes do not help that. Also coaches want top competition. Competition is improved when more teams are brought in. We do not have powerhouse teams vs powerhouse teams much anymore. We have teams with 2-6 powerhouse kids, so more teams are needed.
4. Everybody wants to help and improve West Virginia wrestling. Turning down WV teams and bringing in NON-WV teams doesn't help. However, these non-WV teams do help with the competition. So, lets keep them, bring on more WV teams, pigtail IF needed (the historical data indicates they won't be needed), get the kids more matches, make more money (give the refs a bonus).

Now if you want to see how it is done, look over at those fearless guys at Cameron. They just pulled off a ONE day, 16 team bracket tournament with 22 teams. There were still some byes, NOT one pigtail match was needed and the competition was rock solid.

We will revisit this after a successful Winner's Choice tournament (it will be very good I am sure....it always is). We shall count the 2019 byes for each weight class, recognize the lost capacity to allow more WV wrestlers the opportunity to compete, the lost opportunity to make even more money and hopefully use this information to make the 2020 WC the greatest, baddest of the bad.


In conclusion, all of you coaches that have your teams passed over by the big tournaments, go back through the scores, count the previous year's byes at the given tournament and submit this data with your team's application. Any 32 team tournament in WV that only allows 32 teams is operating under capacity.


We hold these things to make money and provide the kids an opportunity to wrestle correct?

Good luck to all, God bless the Winner's Choice and God Bless the United States of America!!!!!

MarxaTKE wrote:Bearhugger,
Obviously you have never run a tournament before, you can't "just fit a team in" when you are in a 32 team format. Additionally, comment on something you have knowledge of..... Moorefield was advised of a full field when they requested entry several months ago. Check around before you make you uneducated and unfounded comments.

Ouch..

Bearhugger wrote:

MarxaTKE wrote:Bearhugger,
Obviously you have never run a tournament before, you can't "just fit a team in" when you are in a 32 team format. Additionally, comment on something you have knowledge of..... Moorefield was advised of a full field when they requested entry several months ago. Check around before you make you uneducated and unfounded comments.

As I previously stated, I have never run a tournament before. However, let me share some information that might help you.

Given information:

1. The Winner's Choice is a two day, 32 team bracket tournament.
2. The rules permit wrestlers to compete in five matches per day.
3. The 2019 team admission fee is $250 dollars
4. A weekend pass for adults is $20 and a per session pass is $8.
5. I had a BBQ there last season and a Mountain Dew and it cost me maybe $5.
6. 14 weight classes

In 2017, the number of byes for each corresponding weight class at the Winner's Choice was as follows:
106 8
113 11
120 13
126 8
132 9
138 10
145 11
152 9
160 8
170 8
182 7
195 10
220 11
285 13

Also, in 2017, Parkersburg South jumped in at the last minute because they missed the Powerade Tournament in late December. In approximately 2 weeks, they jumped in to the Winner's Choice.

In 2018, the number of byes for each corresponding weight class was as follows:

106 11
113 8
120 12
126 6
132 7
138 8
145 8
152 9
160 11
170 6
182 6
195 10
220 10
285 11

In 2017, the lowest number of byes for a given weight class was 7. This means you had capacity for at least 7 more teams. With an entry fee of $250 per team, $250 x 7 = $1,750 left on the table. The mats were set up, the refs were in place, the food was cooked, the support staff was in place.

Assuming each wrestler has only one person come watch them, that is potentially 7 teams x 14 wrestlers = 98 wrestlers = 98 fans. 98 fans x $20 weekend pass = $1,960 more left on the table lost at the gate. Lets say half of the fans show up. 98/2 = 49 fans X$20 = $980 lost.

Concessions: Only 49 fans X $5 spent = $245 lost at the concession stand.

In 2018, the lowest number of byes for a given weight class was 6. This means you had capacity for 6 more teams, With an entry fee of $250 per team, $250 x 6 = $1,500 left on the table. Etc, etc, etc.

Additional information:
1. If teams miraculously show up with full squads, then why not pigtail in the extras?
2. Worried about the extra time for pigtail rounds? We have more quick pins now than ever before.
3. When coaches talk, I do indeed listen. They all seem to care about the number of matches they get per weigh in. Byes do not help that. Also coaches want top competition. Competition is improved when more teams are brought in. We do not have powerhouse teams vs powerhouse teams much anymore. We have teams with 2-6 powerhouse kids, so more teams are needed.
4. Everybody wants to help and improve West Virginia wrestling. Turning down WV teams and bringing in NON-WV teams doesn't help. However, these non-WV teams do help with the competition. So, lets keep them, bring on more WV teams, pigtail IF needed (the historical data indicates they won't be needed), get the kids more matches, make more money (give the refs a bonus).

Now if you want to see how it is done, look over at those fearless guys at Cameron. They just pulled off a ONE day, 16 team bracket tournament with 22 teams. There were still some byes, NOT one pigtail match was needed and the competition was rock solid.

We will revisit this after a successful Winner's Choice tournament (it will be very good I am sure....it always is). We shall count the 2019 byes for each weight class, recognize the lost capacity to allow more WV wrestlers the opportunity to compete, the lost opportunity to make even more money and hopefully use this information to make the 2020 WC the greatest, baddest of the bad.


In conclusion, all of you coaches that have your teams passed over by the big tournaments, go back through the scores, count the previous year's byes at the given tournament and submit this data with your team's application. Any 32 team tournament in WV that only allows 32 teams is operating under capacity.


We hold these things to make money and provide the kids an opportunity to wrestle correct?

Good luck to all, God bless the Winner's Choice and God Bless the United States of America!!!!!

You forgot to add the additional cost of water for extra participants/fans. I would guess maybe 4.3 flushes per person... and the subsequent hand washing of maybe 64 percent of bathroom users.. ( per CDC). And dont forget the environmental cost of Green House Gases .

Much planning goes into to each event, team rosters are unknown when the event is planned or the teams commit.
We maintain contact with all teams.
Please continue to attend our event (as well as all others) and lean against the wall looking for all negative points of all events. Yes we do hold the event to allow the athletes to compete, most of us on a voluntary basis.

Simply stated look for positives in the events and please quit looking for the negatives that you exploit so well.

And once again Bearhugger comments on something he knows nothing about. I can't imagine how the Winner's Choice Tournament has ran for so long without his knowledge and input. Good grief, I bet Fairmont Senior got a strongly worded email detailing just how they should "fix" the problem that Bearhugger thinks they have.

lovesthesport wrote:And once again Bearhugger comments on something he knows nothing about. I can't imagine how the Winner's Choice Tournament has ran for so long without his knowledge and input. Good grief, I bet Fairmont Senior got a strongly worded email detailing just how they should "fix" the problem that Bearhugger thinks they have.

I have heard two version now of what happened with Moorefield. One from both "sides". There are two sides to every story.

There has been room in the past for more than 32 teams. That was proven in my post. Once again, it will be proven on Sunday after the Winner's Choice.

What: 1st Annual Bearhugger Invitational
When: TBD
Where: TBD

Scoreclocks per mat: ?
Venue: Capacity, Seating, Room for wrestlers to warm up?
Number of Mats: ?
How Many Mats: ?
Where are we getting the mats: ?
How are we transporting the mats: ?
How and when are we returning the mats: ?
How many mats fit, is there room for all fans, is there room for all wrestlers: ?
Concession Stand: ? Who is running, how much food do we need, who will run and get more?
Awards: ?
Number of Scales: ?
Weigh in area for female wrestlers: ?
Number of Officials: ?
Hospitality Room: ?
Table Workers: ?
Set-Up: ?
Tear Down: ?
Tournament Schedule: ?
Location of Awards: ?
Seeding Meeting: ?
Seeding Criteria: ?
Scratches: Redo Brackets
Busted weight: Redo Brackets
No Shows: Redo Brackets
Skin Checks: Wrestler with Herpes, how to handle, who to contact, who else effected?



Now after that is all figured out, how do you make every fan, parent, wrestler happy so nobody complains about how the tournament is being ran? You can't because there is always somebody that thinks they can do better. So you have to ignore ignorance and drive on with what you, as the person hosting the event feels is best for your event to be successful.

Look forward to attending the 1st Annual Bearhugger Invitational next season. Hopefully he releases all of the details shortly.

AAMatRanking wrote:What: 1st Annual Bearhugger Invitational
When: TBD
Where: TBD

Scoreclocks per mat: ?
Venue: Capacity, Seating, Room for wrestlers to warm up?
Number of Mats: ?
How Many Mats: ?
Where are we getting the mats: ?
How are we transporting the mats: ?
How and when are we returning the mats: ?
How many mats fit, is there room for all fans, is there room for all wrestlers: ?
Concession Stand: ? Who is running, how much food do we need, who will run and get more?
Awards: ?
Number of Scales: ?
Weigh in area for female wrestlers: ?
Number of Officials: ?
Hospitality Room: ?
Table Workers: ?
Set-Up: ?
Tear Down: ?
Tournament Schedule: ?
Location of Awards: ?
Seeding Meeting: ?
Seeding Criteria: ?
Scratches: Redo Brackets
Busted weight: Redo Brackets
No Shows: Redo Brackets
Skin Checks: Wrestler with Herpes, how to handle, who to contact, who else effected?



Now after that is all figured out, how do you make every fan, parent, wrestler happy so nobody complains about how the tournament is being ran? You can't because there is always somebody that thinks they can do better. So you have to ignore ignorance and drive on with what you, as the person hosting the event feels is best for your event to be successful.

Look forward to attending the 1st Annual Bearhugger Invitational next season. Hopefully he releases all of the details shortly.

His quote of a 32 team tournament is operating at under capacity if they have only 32 teams is really all that is needed to show his ignorance on the subject. What is the limit? Should a 32 team tourney take 40 teams? What happens if we have a weight class full of 40 kids?

1. What team will volunteer their starters to be placed in a pigtail match? None. Not a single one would run the risk of losing a varsity point scorer because a different weight class has too many byes. That is a ludicrous idea.
2. I believe that would put at least 2 wrestlers (if my math is correct, maybe it isn't) at risk to exceed the 10 match-in-two-day limit. Are you ok with kids forfeiting their placement matches? I am not. I imagine it is not so easy to change a 2 day tourney to a 3 day on a whim after rosters are submitted.

AAMatRanking wrote:What: 1st Annual Bearhugger Invitational
When: TBD
Where: TBD

Scoreclocks per mat: ?
Venue: Capacity, Seating, Room for wrestlers to warm up?
Number of Mats: ?
How Many Mats: ?
Where are we getting the mats: ?
How are we transporting the mats: ?
How and when are we returning the mats: ?
How many mats fit, is there room for all fans, is there room for all wrestlers: ?
Concession Stand: ? Who is running, how much food do we need, who will run and get more?
Awards: ?
Number of Scales: ?
Weigh in area for female wrestlers: ?
Number of Officials: ?
Hospitality Room: ?
Table Workers: ?
Set-Up: ?
Tear Down: ?
Tournament Schedule: ?
Location of Awards: ?
Seeding Meeting: ?
Seeding Criteria: ?
Scratches: Redo Brackets
Busted weight: Redo Brackets
No Shows: Redo Brackets
Skin Checks: Wrestler with Herpes, how to handle, who to contact, who else effected?



Now after that is all figured out, how do you make every fan, parent, wrestler happy so nobody complains about how the tournament is being ran? You can't because there is always somebody that thinks they can do better. So you have to ignore ignorance and drive on with what you, as the person hosting the event feels is best for your event to be successful.

Look forward to attending the 1st Annual Bearhugger Invitational next season. Hopefully he releases all of the details shortly.

This made me smile. The 1st annual Bearhugger Invitational will start out slow and small. We will begin with only six teams and combine forces with the Winner's Choice and fill their byes.

I would also bring in the tournament director and staff from the Cameron Invitational as a consultants. Anybody with the knowledge and heart demonstrated there is who I want on my team. 16 brackets, 22 teams, One day, No pigtails, minimal byes

Matter of fact, I will just copy everything the Winner's Choice does except invite more than 32 teams whereas there is always been 6 or more byes per weight class.

I might bring you in to help too. Anybody that can manage multiple screen names and passwords has some skills.

If there isn't specific information regarding the Bearhugger Invitational's hospitality room, then I'm not going. Please update as it becomes available.

....

Bearhugger where did you get your information at about the Cameron tournament?

I don’t blame one single word on bearhugger. My reasoning in this decision would honestly fall on each and every program in general. Hugger, has a way of infililitrating programs and letting their competition know exactly what’s happening on the other side of the lines. Loose lipped parents and all gossip should be banned from each and every room. Believe half of what you see, maybe 5% of what you hear, and at maximum, .001 of what bearhugger posts. If it doesn’t benefit every single kid on your team, why would we forward the information to Wikileaks the wvmat version, about any kid associated with your program? Loyalty, integrity, and respect from everyone involved in your program go far and beyond imo! This will be my last post on the matter but read, forward to friends, teammates etc and end the gossip. Seriously hugger, would it have been easier to email or call the tournament directors and try to resolve the issue that way, or easier to try and get them blackballed by the whole state? You preach the word of better wrestling in WV. Would starting a revolt against a great tournament make wrestling better in the state? Last question, why do you care so much?

wrasslinfan wrote:Bearhugger where did you get your information at about the Cameron tournament?

I looked at the results.

I counted 22 teams in the scores' area.

I counted 16 brackets being used.

I did not see one single pigtail implemented.

The byes per weight class was as follows:

106 1
113 3
120 4
126 0
132 0
138 0
145 0
152 0
160 0
170 0
182 0
195 4
220 4
285 0

Based on the 16 brackets, they made room for 6 teams.

mattman wrote:I don’t blame one single word on bearhugger. My reasoning in this decision would honestly fall on each and every program in general. Hugger, has a way of infililitrating programs and letting their competition know exactly what’s happening on the other side of the lines. Loose lipped parents and all gossip should be banned from each and every room. Believe half of what you see, maybe 5% of what you hear, and at maximum, .001 of what bearhugger posts. If it doesn’t benefit every single kid on your team, why would we forward the information to Wikileaks the wvmat version, about any kid associated with your program? Loyalty, integrity, and respect from everyone involved in your program go far and beyond imo! This will be my last post on the matter but read, forward to friends, teammates etc and end the gossip. Seriously hugger, would it have been easier to email or call the tournament directors and try to resolve the issue that way, or easier to try and get them blackballed by the whole state? You preach the word of better wrestling in WV. Would starting a revolt against a great tournament make wrestling better in the state? Last question, why do you care so much?

Matt, you need to focus less on me and more on other things. Hopefully you will figure it all out. Also, your son looked good at the NG Duals. Good luck next weekend.

Bearhugger wrote:

wrasslinfan wrote:Bearhugger where did you get your information at about the Cameron tournament?

I looked at the results.

I counted 22 teams in the scores' area.

I counted 16 brackets being used.

I did not see one single pigtail implemented.

The byes per weight class was as follows:

106 1
113 3
120 4
126 0
132 0
138 0
145 0
152 0
160 0
170 0
182 0
195 4
220 4
285 0

Based on the 16 brackets, they made room for 6 teams.

I was at the Cameron tournament and there were pigtail matches in 3-4 brackets. I'm not sure why they were not shown in the results but there was most certainly a few pigtails

Bearhugger wrote:

wrasslinfan wrote:Bearhugger where did you get your information at about the Cameron tournament?

I looked at the results.

I counted 22 teams in the scores' area.

I counted 16 brackets being used.

I did not see one single pigtail implemented.

The byes per weight class was as follows:

106 1
113 3
120 4
126 0
132 0
138 0
145 0
152 0
160 0
170 0
182 0
195 4
220 4
285 0

Based on the 16 brackets, they made room for 6 teams.

I was at the Cameron tournament and there were pigtail matches in 3-4 brackets. I'm not sure why they were not shown in the results but there was most certainly a few pigtails

JustSomeone wrote:

AAMatRanking wrote:What: 1st Annual Bearhugger Invitational
When: TBD
Where: TBD

Scoreclocks per mat: ?
Venue: Capacity, Seating, Room for wrestlers to warm up?
Number of Mats: ?
How Many Mats: ?
Where are we getting the mats: ?
How are we transporting the mats: ?
How and when are we returning the mats: ?
How many mats fit, is there room for all fans, is there room for all wrestlers: ?
Concession Stand: ? Who is running, how much food do we need, who will run and get more?
Awards: ?
Number of Scales: ?
Weigh in area for female wrestlers: ?
Number of Officials: ?
Hospitality Room: ?
Table Workers: ?
Set-Up: ?
Tear Down: ?
Tournament Schedule: ?
Location of Awards: ?
Seeding Meeting: ?
Seeding Criteria: ?
Scratches: Redo Brackets
Busted weight: Redo Brackets
No Shows: Redo Brackets
Skin Checks: Wrestler with Herpes, how to handle, who to contact, who else effected?



Now after that is all figured out, how do you make every fan, parent, wrestler happy so nobody complains about how the tournament is being ran? You can't because there is always somebody that thinks they can do better. So you have to ignore ignorance and drive on with what you, as the person hosting the event feels is best for your event to be successful.

Look forward to attending the 1st Annual Bearhugger Invitational next season. Hopefully he releases all of the details shortly.

His quote of a 32 team tournament is operating at under capacity if they have only 32 teams is really all that is needed to show his ignorance on the subject. What is the limit? Should a 32 team tourney take 40 teams? What happens if we have a weight class full of 40 kids?

1. What team will volunteer their starters to be placed in a pigtail match? None. Not a single one would run the risk of losing a varsity point scorer because a different weight class has too many byes. That is a ludicrous idea.
2. I believe that would put at least 2 wrestlers (if my math is correct, maybe it isn't) at risk to exceed the 10 match-in-two-day limit. Are you ok with kids forfeiting their placement matches? I am not. I imagine it is not so easy to change a 2 day tourney to a 3 day on a whim after rosters are submitted.

The Cameron Invitational took the chance. No pigtails were needed. Few byes and 9 weight classes had zero byes. 22 teams in a 16 team bracket.

To address your concerns:

1. A new team wants in. This takes the tournament above 32 teams. You ask the coach "are you ok with your unseeded kids wrestling in pigtails?" If he says no, then tell him he cannot come whereas you already have 32 teams. If he wants in bad enough, let him accept under the required terms.


2. You do as much consolation matches on Friday as possible to avoid a few kids possibly going over the 5 match limit on Saturday. It already happens. The Jackson County Invitational this season and the Coal Field Conference last season both had a few situations where kids had to forfeit 3rd place. Again, I know some coaches that would rather face the competition and get in rather than insuring their kids get 3rd or 4th.


3. A third day was your idea to make light of the situation.


For the reasonable crowd reading, criticizing the Winner's Choice tournament was never mentioned or the intent by me. Not understanding how there wasn't room for a team was hard to understand. I did two years' worth of research. The historical data proves there is room for another team. I shared my information. If people do not understand the information of choose to ignore it, then there is nothing else that can be done.

A team was under the understanding they were in the Winner's Choice all season long. Last Friday, they had to scurry around to find another event.

I may be ignorant of many things. Matter of fact, I am probably the dumbest idiot on here. The one thing I and ALL OF YOU should know by now is participation is so low, we have byes at the state tournament.

Does anybody really think that 32 teams are going to show up with full rosters? I bet 16 or the 32 won't have full rosters.

Again, if any coach wants into a tournament next season, look at the number of teams and number of byes the tournament had the previous 1 - 3 seasons. Submit that information with your application. If you get turned down, ask how when there has been a 6-7 bye minimum per weight class.

Bearhugger wrote:

JustSomeone wrote:

AAMatRanking wrote:What: 1st Annual Bearhugger Invitational
When: TBD
Where: TBD

Scoreclocks per mat: ?
Venue: Capacity, Seating, Room for wrestlers to warm up?
Number of Mats: ?
How Many Mats: ?
Where are we getting the mats: ?
How are we transporting the mats: ?
How and when are we returning the mats: ?
How many mats fit, is there room for all fans, is there room for all wrestlers: ?
Concession Stand: ? Who is running, how much food do we need, who will run and get more?
Awards: ?
Number of Scales: ?
Weigh in area for female wrestlers: ?
Number of Officials: ?
Hospitality Room: ?
Table Workers: ?
Set-Up: ?
Tear Down: ?
Tournament Schedule: ?
Location of Awards: ?
Seeding Meeting: ?
Seeding Criteria: ?
Scratches: Redo Brackets
Busted weight: Redo Brackets
No Shows: Redo Brackets
Skin Checks: Wrestler with Herpes, how to handle, who to contact, who else effected?



Now after that is all figured out, how do you make every fan, parent, wrestler happy so nobody complains about how the tournament is being ran? You can't because there is always somebody that thinks they can do better. So you have to ignore ignorance and drive on with what you, as the person hosting the event feels is best for your event to be successful.

Look forward to attending the 1st Annual Bearhugger Invitational next season. Hopefully he releases all of the details shortly.

His quote of a 32 team tournament is operating at under capacity if they have only 32 teams is really all that is needed to show his ignorance on the subject. What is the limit? Should a 32 team tourney take 40 teams? What happens if we have a weight class full of 40 kids?

1. What team will volunteer their starters to be placed in a pigtail match? None. Not a single one would run the risk of losing a varsity point scorer because a different weight class has too many byes. That is a ludicrous idea.
2. I believe that would put at least 2 wrestlers (if my math is correct, maybe it isn't) at risk to exceed the 10 match-in-two-day limit. Are you ok with kids forfeiting their placement matches? I am not. I imagine it is not so easy to change a 2 day tourney to a 3 day on a whim after rosters are submitted.

The Cameron Invitational took the chance. No pigtails were needed. Few byes and 9 weight classes had zero byes. 22 teams in a 16 team bracket.

To address your concerns:

1. A new team wants in. This takes the tournament above 32 teams. You ask the coach "are you ok with your unseeded kids wrestling in pigtails?" If he says no, then tell him he cannot come whereas you already have 32 teams. If he wants in bad enough, let him accept under the required terms.

You know 2 it takes two kids to wrestle a pigtail. What if the team that wants in agrees? Which one of the other teams do you ask?

aaacoach33 wrote:

Bearhugger wrote:

JustSomeone wrote:

His quote of a 32 team tournament is operating at under capacity if they have only 32 teams is really all that is needed to show his ignorance on the subject. What is the limit? Should a 32 team tourney take 40 teams? What happens if we have a weight class full of 40 kids?

1. What team will volunteer their starters to be placed in a pigtail match? None. Not a single one would run the risk of losing a varsity point scorer because a different weight class has too many byes. That is a ludicrous idea.
2. I believe that would put at least 2 wrestlers (if my math is correct, maybe it isn't) at risk to exceed the 10 match-in-two-day limit. Are you ok with kids forfeiting their placement matches? I am not. I imagine it is not so easy to change a 2 day tourney to a 3 day on a whim after rosters are submitted.

The Cameron Invitational took the chance. No pigtails were needed. Few byes and 9 weight classes had zero byes. 22 teams in a 16 team bracket.

To address your concerns:

1. A new team wants in. This takes the tournament above 32 teams. You ask the coach "are you ok with your unseeded kids wrestling in pigtails?" If he says no, then tell him he cannot come whereas you already have 32 teams. If he wants in bad enough, let him accept under the required terms.

You know 2 it takes two kids to wrestle a pigtail. What if the team that wants in agrees? Which one of the other teams do you ask?

Being the uninformed idiot that I am, I do not know how far down any tournament seeds their wrestlers. To answer your question, lets say they only seed the top 16 and then pull everybody else's name out of a hat. Whoevers name gets pulled out last, gets thrown in the pigtail. I would structure it so that pigtail match winners then hit the lower seeded wrestlers first and not the top seeded wrestlers.


The number one question that should be asked is "do you want excess byes or not?" To reduce byes, increase teams. Increased teams could lead to a few pigtails. Going back to the recent Cameron example. There were fewer byes, no pigtails and despite 22 teams, it still equated to a 16 team bracket. Any other problems that may have existed is an independent issue.


At the National Guard Duals, it was a two day, 28 team event. There were some wrestlers that only got 4 matches. Again, as coaches, wrestlers, parents, fans, tournament directors, or an uniformed idiot like me......................what do we want? Matches or byes? Make money at the gate or make MORE money at the gate. Barnburner matches starting in the quarterfinals or only barnburner matches in the finals.

I would say that a coach that doesn't want a few pigtails is indirectly saying he wants more byes.

There were pigtails at Cameron. I was there, so I should know. Our 152 wrestled in one... just more misinformation from someone trying to stir the pot. Learn before you post. Better yet, run a tournament and gain some experience before you post.

Bearhugger wrote:

aaacoach33 wrote:

Bearhugger wrote:

The Cameron Invitational took the chance. No pigtails were needed. Few byes and 9 weight classes had zero byes. 22 teams in a 16 team bracket.

To address your concerns:

1. A new team wants in. This takes the tournament above 32 teams. You ask the coach "are you ok with your unseeded kids wrestling in pigtails?" If he says no, then tell him he cannot come whereas you already have 32 teams. If he wants in bad enough, let him accept under the required terms.

You know 2 it takes two kids to wrestle a pigtail. What if the team that wants in agrees? Which one of the other teams do you ask?

Being the uninformed idiot that I am, I do not know how far down any tournament seeds their wrestlers. To answer your question, lets say they only seed the top 16 and then pull everybody else's name out of a hat. Whoevers name gets pulled out last, gets thrown in the pigtail. I would structure it so that pigtail match winners then hit the lower seeded wrestlers first and not the top seeded wrestlers.


The number one question that should be asked is "do you want excess byes or not?" To reduce byes, increase teams. Increased teams could lead to a few pigtails. Going back to the recent Cameron example. There were fewer byes, no pigtails and despite 22 teams, it still equated to a 16 team bracket. Any other problems that may have existed is an independent issue.


At the National Guard Duals, it was a two day, 28 team event. There were some wrestlers that only got 4 matches. Again, as coaches, wrestlers, parents, fans, tournament directors, or an uniformed idiot like me......................what do we want? Matches or byes? Make money at the gate or make MORE money at the gate. Barnburner matches starting in the quarterfinals or only barnburner matches in the finals.

I would say that a coach that doesn't want a few pigtails is indirectly saying he wants more byes.

So you are saying that if my team contacted the tournament director to confirm our entry on time, even months in advance, one or more of my wrestlers might get thrown in a pigtail because a few weights might not have enough kids to not have byes and they had to accept a few more teams nearly last minute? If you were a coach, you would realize how ridiculous that sounds.

That is great that the Cameron tournament worked to your satisfaction. No 2 tournaments are the same. So unless you would like to step up and coach a team yourself, or run a tournament, you are speaking only from a place of pure ignorance.