Is it time for WV wrestling to go to one true Champion

[Heath]

Like the state of New Jersey?? It’d be much more exciting and it’s make it a lot harder to win a title. Seems to be a lot of four timers recently than there ever was. Just looking for opinions is all.

[crochog93]

One class... 32 man brackets.. seeded 1-32... place top 8... hand out an overall team champion, and then your divisional champion in each of A, AA, and AAA.

[beachbum1234]

Like the state of New Jersey?? It’d be much more exciting and it’s make it a lot harder to win a title. Seems to be a lot of four timers recently than there ever was. Just looking for opinions is all.

Quality of wrestling may increase but I think there will be a negative impact on participation. That title would mean more as would placement, making it to the tourney, etc. I just don't see more kids wanting to join the sport when it is so difficult to get anything out of it, other than the participation and life lessons. Maybe I am wrong, but in an age where too many people have the "participation trophy" and "instant reward" culture, I think this would be a bad idea generally for WV.

[Bearhugger]

Like the state of New Jersey?? It’d be much more exciting and it’s make it a lot harder to win a title. Seems to be a lot of four timers recently than there ever was. Just looking for opinions is all.

Quality of wrestling may increase but I think there will be a negative impact on participation. That title would mean more as would placement, making it to the tourney, etc. I just don't see more kids wanting to join the sport when it is so difficult to get anything out of it, other than the participation and life lessons. Maybe I am wrong, but in an age where too many people have the "participation trophy" and "instant reward" culture, I think this would be a bad idea generally for WV.

I agree with you. I felt like this state tournament was more competitive within each weight class and in the team races. If you take out South and Point, we have a heck of a battle. We had a war in single A.

We have many STQs/placers due back. Few hammers. Next season should be very good unless the self-ordained doctors ban more kids because they stood beside a Covid positive student less than 5 feet, 11 inches away.

[Heath]

Like the state of New Jersey?? It’d be much more exciting and it’s make it a lot harder to win a title. Seems to be a lot of four timers recently than there ever was. Just looking for opinions is all.

Quality of wrestling may increase but I think there will be a negative impact on participation. That title would mean more as would placement, making it to the tourney, etc. I just don't see more kids wanting to join the sport when it is so difficult to get anything out of it, other than the participation and life lessons. Maybe I am wrong, but in an age where too many people have the "participation trophy" and "instant reward" culture, I think this would be a bad idea generally for WV.

I agree with pretty much everything you said. I was just curious is all. I know college coaches take a state title from a state that has a one true champ than other states with multiple champs. At least we only have three. Some have much more. Then there are states that are wayyyy bigger than us that have one true champ. California comes to mind. Youre right it’d probably hurt participation.

[Doyablameme?]

Like the state of New Jersey?? It’d be much more exciting and it’s make it a lot harder to win a title. Seems to be a lot of four timers recently than there ever was. Just looking for opinions is all.

No

[HiCoach]

I am on the opposite end of this, and believe there should be a single A individual tournament. The numbers are there to equally separate all 3 divisions and most importantly, it would increase student participation. I know what most will say, "it will be too watered down" but just like anything else you need to give it time to build. Ohio was the same way when they went to 3 divisions and look at them now. In a state where we have low participation numbers in athletics compared to other states (NY, NJ, CA) I think getting more participation is the key. Wrestling is by far the hardest sport to get "all state" in. You must take 1st to be considered all state. There is no voting or top 10, 8, 6, etc. If basketball can have 4 divisions now, and even Cross-Country had 3 divisions this year (because of covid), why can't wrestling? One of the only sports left that doesn't have their own, AND you have to outright win it to be all-state. When AAA regions have only 4-5 kids in weights you cannot say a separate single A division would be "watered down" IMO.

[Pottstd]

I think your opinion on this completely depends on what you think the most important thing is when considering the state championships. For instance, if your highest concern is hoping to increase participation by allowing the most kids to experience what they consider as success (i.e. winning titles, placing, qualifying, etc.) then three separate tournaments is probably your preference. However, if you place emphasis on the "value" a WV state titles hold (i.e. for recruiting purposes, etc.) then a single state tournament with all three classes would significantly increase that value. Neither of these are bad thoughts or desires, and as we know with many things the effects may not be exactly what you would expect.

I would tend to favor combining classes and then giving out awards for A/AA/AAA team champions, awards for each class (MOW, Coach of year), etc.. This is the way the OVAC does it up in the northern panhandle and it seems like it keeps everyone pretty happy. I would agree that if we went to one championship we should expand the number of wrestlers and add additional placers. But I would value the value of a state championship fairly highly. Plus, there are situations, at least at 3A, where people are qualifying without winning matches b/c there are so few people in a region. While this is not the same as being a state champion or placing, it is telling.

Further, it is again my opinion that very few wrestlers that I have dealt with would be unwilling to participate if classes were combined. If they were a titlist threat or placers threat they would likely continue to be so with combined classes. Further, there are plenty of wrestlers who have very slim prospects of qualifying, let alone placing, that continue to wrestle. If they are only sticking around b/c they can be successful they arent really even learning the amazing life lessons wrestling can teach anyway so the value to them in either direction would be limited.

Again this is my opinion, and I dont dis-value participation. I simply believe that if our only focus is on boosting participation by inflating success we are doing a disservice to our top wrestlers and to all the wrestlers as we are watering down the life lessons wrestling teaches us.

[Lloyd Christmas]

I think your opinion on this completely depends on what you think the most important thing is when considering the state championships. For instance, if your highest concern is hoping to increase participation by allowing the most kids to experience what they consider as success (i.e. winning titles, placing, qualifying, etc.) then three separate tournaments is probably your preference. However, if you place emphasis on the "value" a WV state titles hold (i.e. for recruiting purposes, etc.) then a single state tournament with all three classes would significantly increase that value. Neither of these are bad thoughts or desires, and as we know with many things the effects may not be exactly what you would expect.

I would tend to favor combining classes and then giving out awards for A/AA/AAA team champions, awards for each class (MOW, Coach of year), etc.. This is the way the OVAC does it up in the northern panhandle and it seems like it keeps everyone pretty happy. I would agree that if we went to one championship we should expand the number of wrestlers and add additional placers. But I would value the value of a state championship fairly highly. Plus, there are situations, at least at 3A, where people are qualifying without winning matches b/c there are so few people in a region. While this is not the same as being a state champion or placing, it is telling.

Further, it is again my opinion that very few wrestlers that I have dealt with would be unwilling to participate if classes were combined. If they were a titlist threat or placers threat they would likely continue to be so with combined classes. Further, there are plenty of wrestlers who have very slim prospects of qualifying, let alone placing, that continue to wrestle. If they are only sticking around b/c they can be successful they arent really even learning the amazing life lessons wrestling can teach anyway so the value to them in either direction would be limited.

Again this is my opinion, and I dont dis-value participation. I simply believe that if our only focus is on boosting participation by inflating success we are doing a disservice to our top wrestlers and to all the wrestlers as we are watering down the life lessons wrestling teaches us.

Yep! Have 4 regions and take top 8 from each or 8 regions and take top 4. Place top 8. Maybe even wrestle through placing 9-12 but not necessarily give them awards.

[Heath]

I think your opinion on this completely depends on what you think the most important thing is when considering the state championships. For instance, if your highest concern is hoping to increase participation by allowing the most kids to experience what they consider as success (i.e. winning titles, placing, qualifying, etc.) then three separate tournaments is probably your preference. However, if you place emphasis on the "value" a WV state titles hold (i.e. for recruiting purposes, etc.) then a single state tournament with all three classes would significantly increase that value. Neither of these are bad thoughts or desires, and as we know with many things the effects may not be exactly what you would expect.

I would tend to favor combining classes and then giving out awards for A/AA/AAA team champions, awards for each class (MOW, Coach of year), etc.. This is the way the OVAC does it up in the northern panhandle and it seems like it keeps everyone pretty happy. I would agree that if we went to one championship we should expand the number of wrestlers and add additional placers. But I would value the value of a state championship fairly highly. Plus, there are situations, at least at 3A, where people are qualifying without winning matches b/c there are so few people in a region. While this is not the same as being a state champion or placing, it is telling.

Further, it is again my opinion that very few wrestlers that I have dealt with would be unwilling to participate if classes were combined. If they were a titlist threat or placers threat they would likely continue to be so with combined classes. Further, there are plenty of wrestlers who have very slim prospects of qualifying, let alone placing, that continue to wrestle. If they are only sticking around b/c they can be successful they arent really even learning the amazing life lessons wrestling can teach anyway so the value to them in either direction would be limited.

Again this is my opinion, and I dont dis-value participation. I simply believe that if our only focus is on boosting participation by inflating success we are doing a disservice to our top wrestlers and to all the wrestlers as we are watering down the life lessons wrestling teaches us.

Thank you. You put it way better than I ever could. I’m not against the way it is now. I would just prefer we had one true individual champion. Then give the team awards if you’d like. I would be against having three different champions tho. Single A doesn’t need their own individual titles IMO.
With one true champion the wrestling would be much better. We’d get to see some great matchups. A state title would mean so much more. It could only help recruiting. Would love to see it.

[aacoach32]

Eight Districts and top four make it to regionals. Four regions and top four make it to States. One classification for States. Sounds like a good show where the true cream rises to the top.

[Riverdawg64]

You first have to look at resources available to A teams vs AAA teams. A teams will not likely have multiple wrestlers at a certain weight class and may only have one or two outstanding wrestlers to practice with. It would not be a fair shake for AA and A schools that have limited students and resources available to them. That is why we have OVACs, WSAZs, and conference championships for to find out who is the best. It is bad enough A schools battle large AA schools that have 2 or 3 full teams to wrestle when the A schools can not even field a full single team. There should be a true championships in A, AA, and AAA. Single A has more schools and could have a true Champion in A if the WVSSAC would allow it. But remember you have to compare all aspects of the schools to say it would be fair. Just my opinion.

[aacoach32]

That would be cool if the WVSSAC would allow it.

[Bearhugger]

I do not believe tinkering with the WV state tournament is going to help recruiting one bit. If wrestlers want to get recruited, they need to go to Super 32, Ironman, Powerade, NHSCA and Fargo. Do well at those tournaments. Knock off a ranked wrestler. Place. It worked for Amos, Hall, Adams, Roberts and Best. 3 /5 of those wrestlers didn't leave the state anyway.

I, along with many of you, have attended the tournaments listed above. They are crawling with college wrestling coaches.

Iowa, Penn State, Oklahoma State, etc is not going to say "wow, WV has combined all of its classes. The winner has to be a D1 recruit. Lets go watch!".

Furthermore, we just watched one heck of a Single A team title race. The majority of the Single A teams in the hunt only qualified 6 wrestlers using the existing process. By combining all classes, running through sectionals and then regionals, most Single A schools will be lucky to qualify 3 wrestlers, let alone 6.

WV's population is shrinking. The more difficult things are made on the small schools, the less wrestling we will have.

With the exception of some top wrestlers getting banned from the state tournament due to Covid 19 witch hunts and scared "decision makers", this was one of the more competitive state tournaments we have had in recent years.

The only way I would like to see an all class combined tournament is if it was a 64 man bracket. That way all Single A wrestlers have a better chance of competing.

[aacoach32]

I would actually like to see the Single A class continue to grow to the point they can have their own class. Virginia has six different classes in wrestling, so they have six different state champions. I think it would be great for the smaller schools to have their own class and state champions. Let them prove who is the best at the big tourneys following the high school season. If they want to wrestle at a big school, they need to wresle in those anyway.